Media ID   0237b-A    

Unique ID

1126779799-72

Speakers

Bill Sutton, David Lange, Fran Wilde, Geoff Braybrooke, Graeme Lee, Jim Sutton, John Banks, Merv Wellington, Philip Woollaston, Winston Peters, talkback callers, unidentified speakers

Related media

0237b-B

Details

Source tape		0237b-A
Date		16 April 1986, 17 April 1986
Source		Parliament, National Programme, 2ZB Wellington
Copyright		Parliament, National Programme, 2ZB Wellington
Recorded by		Barry Neels
Deposited by		Barry Neels

Comments

Committee Stages span 0231 – 0238

Disclaimer

This summary gives general themes as to the content of this recording. It is not a verbatim transcript. Always refer back to the original audio. This is a working document and any amendments/corrections are welcome.

Continued Parliamentary debate and then vote on Part Two (anti discrimination) of the Homosexual Law Reform Bill

01:10

Fran Wilde [continued from 0237b-B]

01:15

Merv Wellington – speaking to point of order.. I have complained about Fran Wilde’s interjections.. she’s on her knees.. Are voluntary organisations exempt from Part Two or not

02:20

Fran Wilde – it applies to people in paid employment

03:00

Wellington – many voluntary organisations have paid administrators.. example New Zealand Red Cross Society.. I take exception to what Fran Wilde is doing..

05:15

Wilde – I cannot follow Merv Wellington’s line of reasoning.. any volunteers would not be covered by this

06:30

Wellington – In the early 1970s I was involved by the Red Cross Society.. Member for Hamilton West (Trevor Mallard) – a political lout chaired the Committee on this measure.. division and confusion..

10:00

Jim Sutton – I move that the question be now put

10:10

John Banks – point of order – what question are you putting

10:50

Chairman – vote

11:00

Merv Wellington – point of order.. speeches - four times five minutes.. I haven’t had that .. where fresh material is injected into the debate..

12:40

Chairman – ruling.. the closure motion has been passed.. I’ll put it again.. division called for.. ayes - 42 noes - 34 .. the question will be put..

16:00

Chairman – Graeme Lee has put forward amendments

16:15

Wellington - point of order..

17:00

Chairman – Bill Sutton amendment – redefines “sexual orientation”

17:20

Bill Sutton - I do not wish to proceed with that amendment

18:10

Winston Peters – I am happy to move Dr. Suttons amendment

18:40

Philip Woollaston – point of order

19:00

Peters – the amendment has been foreshadowed.. so any Member can move it.

19:44

Chairman – ruling..

20:20

David Lange - point of order.. these matters should go to the vote without comment, debate or further points of order

20:50

Wellington – point of order

21:40

Chairman – vote.. ayes/noes .. Bill Sutton’s amendment is lost

22:20

Chairman – Graeme Lee’s amendment to Bill Sutton’s amendment – change ‘sexual’ to ‘heterosexual’ .. vote.. division called for.. ayes 39, noes 40.. the amendment to the amendment is not agreed to..

25:30

Chairman – Bill Sutton’s amendment allows for discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation in respect of domestic employment and religious orders..

25:40

John Banks – point of order.. 1 minute bells..

26:10

Chairman - Bill Sutton’s amendment .. vote .. division called for.. ayes 52, noes 26 .. the amendment is agreed to..

26:40

Chairman - Graeme Lee’s amendment to Whetu Tirikatene Sullivan’s amendment – change ‘sexual’ to ‘heterosexual’

27:40

Graeme Lee – explaining the amendment to the amendment

28:14

Chairman - vote on Graeme Lee’s amendment to Whetu Tirikatene Sullivan’s amendment.. votes.. division called for.. ayes 34, noes 45 .. the amendment is not agreed to..

29:20

Lee – point of order.. wish to withdraw my subsequent amendments..

29:50

Chairman - Whetu Tirikatene Sullivan’s amendments – allows for discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation in respect of positions of authority over young persons and in respect of letting of residential property.. vote .. division called for.. ayes 44, noes 35 .. the amendment is agreed to

31:00

Chairman - Frank O'Flynn’s amendment to Geoff Braybrooke’s - allows for discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation in respect of police, armed forces, traffic officers and prison officers..

32:00

Geoff Braybrooke – point of order.. seeking clarification

33:30

Chairman - Geoff Braybrooke’s amendment .. vote .. division called for.. ayes 42, noes 37.. the amendment is agreed too..

34:40

Chairman - Geoff Braybrooke’s amendment - allowing educational institutions to make and enforce rules about sexual conduct.. vote.. division called for.. ayes 45, noes 35 .. the amendment is agreed to

35:20

Chairman - Frank O'Flynn’s proposal of a new clause - 11a.. allows for discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation by vocational training bodies in respect of the training of servicemen or people seeking to enlist.. vote .. division called for..

36:00

? – point of order.. questioning how David Lange voted

37:20

Philip Woollaston – speaking to the point of order..

38:00

Chairman .. ayes - 44, noes - 34 .. the amendment is agreed to

38:30

Chairman - Frank O'Flynn’s new amendment.. .. allows for discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation by educational institutions conducted by the armed forces in respect of servicemen or people seeking to enlist ..vote.. division called for.. ayes - 44, noes - 35 the amendment is agreed to..

39:10

Chairman – we now come to the main question.. vote on Part Two .. division called for.. ayes 31, noes 49 – Part Two will not stand apart.. I will report progress.

40:30

[general Chamber atmosphere.. then the Speaker returns]

41:10

Speaker – the Chairman has reported progress.. the House stands adjourned..

News report on the loss of Part Two – anti discrimination (National Programme)

41:50

A read wrap-up of reactions from Fran Wilde, Graeme Lee and Bill Logan

Talkback (17 April 1986) just after Part Two has been lost - Paul Holmes, 2ZB Wellington.

42:40

Paul Holmes - So the prospect that we are facing is that homosexuality will be legal, but employers, landlords and the like will still be able to discriminate..

43:00

Paul Holmes.. the Catholic Church has taken a very strange position..

43:30

Caller: Female – I don’t believe in homosexuality.. sodomizing twelve year old children.. I’ve read the Bill right through..

44:20

Paul Holmes responds.. it’s not in the Bill lady.. a father sodomizing his twelve year old son.. you may be getting confused..

46:30

Caller: Female – the whole Bill should be thrown out.